Questions and Answers
September 3, 2019
The Questions and Answer page is now closed.
Voting begins today September 3, 2019 and ends on September 23, 2019
Annexation of 60 Acres on Kenmure’s Southern Border
Anonymous questions or questions on behalf of unnamed persons are not posted. For more information, visit 60-Acre Annexation Information.
Phase VII Agreement, Security & Voting
Bill Daleure (8/20/2019)
[Phase VII ]Developer Agreement – A quick review today shows that the agreed to setback adjacent to existing Kenmure properties of 35’ is not mentioned. Can it be added?
ANSWER: The 35′ set back requirement is contained in the 2019 Kenmure Declaration Amendments, not in the Phase VII Agreement. Changes to the Declaration also will be in the ballot.
I have some questions about installation of utilities that may be covered in the September 26, 2004 agreement referenced but not attached. Can you please send that to me?
ANSWER: See Phase VII Agreement.
In paragraph 2 it states that the Chatsworth connection would be open to all traffic after the Phase VII road is completed. Security had discussed that they should control this access until there are residents living there with some type of lock that security and sales have a key too. Could you add something to the effect that “it will be subject to KPOA Security control measures.”?
ANSWER: Yes, Kenmure Security will be in control of access after KPOA accepts the new road. The new Mt. Olivet gate will be operational when this occurs. For emergency access, the secure entrance at Chatsworth will be removed when Mt. Olivet gate is operational and the road has been accepted.
Election Process – I spoke with Terry Haft about this an think I understand but some questions she referred me to you.
- Paper ballots are mailed back to the KPOA office and Terry picks them up in their sealed envelopes and holds them until the election is concluded.
- Electronic voting comes to Terry directly and is held until the election is concluded. How are these electronic ballots secured and stored until election completion?
- Upon conclusion, the elections committee counts and certifies all votes, and reports the results to you.
- Terry said there are no interim counts of any ballots.
- You stated at the Town Halls that you would be getting reports of who hasn’t voted so you can call and encourage them to vote. When I ask Terry how this would happen, she referred me to you. How does that process work?
- With exception of my questions, do you concur with this process as explained to me?
ANSWER: The process for the voting on the Annexation of the 60 Acres is the same as it has been for all prior votes and elections. The election process is under the direction of the KPOA Corporate Secretary, who retains custody of the ballots for one-year after the election. The Election Committee assembles the package of voting materials, and delivers it to the printer who assembles and mails the voting package. The package will include a cover letter from the Board, the Ballot (with Declaration Changes) with an Owner ID# and a Voter ID#, and online voting instructions.
The Ballot does not have the owner’s name on it — just an Owner ID #. All ballots are confidential.
Paper ballots are received at the KPOA office. At the end of the voting period, the Election Committee counts the paper ballots. Similarly, the electronic ballots are received by KPOA, collected and tabulated by a member (Stan Christman) who provides the Election Committee with the vote count at the end of the voting period.
At several times during the voting, the Election Committee will provide a list of those who have not voted to the Board liaison so that calls can be made to encourage property owners to vote.
KEI Financial Commitment Package / Budget
What does KPOA gain?
There are pluses to KPOA, including:
- KEI will pay $10,000 to KPOA when the Declaration change is approved.
- $15,000 from KEI to KPOA when the Declaration Change is Approved 
- $15,000 from KEI to KPOA when the first road segment is accepted by RMC [estimate 2022]
Thereafter each year, KEI to pay to KPOA 15 times the current lot assessment
• KEI also will install the road(s) in accordance with KPOA/RMC standard (KEI warrants the road for one-year after it is deeded to KPOA) as well as pay for the installation of an electronic gate at Mt. Olivet Road. This gate will be used for construction access as well as an emergency access gate (fire, police, ambulances, etc.).
New construction helps Kenmure remain vibrant resulting in stable and improving property values for all of Kenmure.
Additional Kenmure properties increase the opportunity to attract homeowners who can become active Kenmure residents and Club members. What will this cost me as a property owner, i.e., will it increase my KPOA assessment? Your KPOA assessment may see a minimal increase until lots are sold.
Our KPOA Treasurer estimates about 10% of our expenses are fixed costs, including the office, the gatehouse, common grounds, accounting service, etc. Adding more lots gives us more people to share these costs. Contract Security and the Security vehicle account for 35% of our expenses. These are semi-fixed costs and would not rise quicker than the number of additional lots. Here is an RMC Analysis of Road Maintenance and Road Reserve Costs. Your KPOA assessment will not need to be increased, because of the annexation. See 60 Acres Income Expense Analysis
Costs associated with amending the Kenmure Declaration, including review by KPOA’s attorney, are minimal. KEI has agreed to split all costs, including but not limited to, copying, mailing, and legal costs and filing fees.
It has been suggested that the development of the new area will increase the value of the existing homes in Kenmure. Further, it has been suggested that there will be additional costs associated with the maintenance of this new area that will be passed on to the existing residents in our annual homeowners fee. So, in addition to the development of the budget for the cost to the KPOA for entire new development (Bill’s Question #2), will a cost benefit analysis and a budget cost analysis be completed and sent to us for review prior to the vote in September?
The KPOA Board is developing income/expense projections. Stay tuned. UPDATE 7/30/2019: See KEI Financial Commitment Package Net cost of the annexation to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
The Board stated that KEI will share in all of the costs to promote this annexation, the cost of getting out the vote, and all legal expenses incurred by KPOA. KEI gets all the benefits of increased land value and future sales, so why doesn’t KEI pay for all the KPOA costs?
Update 7/30/2019: KEI is paying the entire cost of this KPOA member vote.
Lee says KEI owns 23 un-platted lots in Phase VI and 3 other lots in Kenmure. At 2-3 sales per year in Phase VI, that will occupy KEI for 8-12 more years. Not platting those lots along Hollybrook Drive, which KPOA has to maintain, deprives KPOA of Dues to help offset the cost. Should KPOA ask KEI to plat those lots to provide revenue to offset our maintenance costs?
Phase VI will take quite some time to complete based on current market conditions. However, the current market conditions are better than during the recent downturn. In Phase VII, KEI is planning on developing smaller lots/homes is because that is what the community is asking for. Thus the reason sales have been so brisk in BWV and The Cottages. The market has taken a major turn in the past 7 years. People have indicated a strong desire to downsize and don’t want to leave their long term friends and all that Kenmure has to offer. As for the gate – a very good reason to keep it is the access to the community by the new fire/rescue substation being built on Mt. Olivette as well as an additional exit in the event of a declared emergency.
The KEI practice for not platting lots until KEI has a buyer has been long-standing and there is little reason to change (except maybe greed). Un-platted lots do not cost KPOA additional funds – no Security increase, no increase in traffic and therefore insignificant increase in road maintenance, no snow removal for a group of un-platted lots, and garbage pickup is based on occupied homes. Therefore, there is no compelling rationale to press KEI to plat lots earlier than necessary.
Do owners (individual or contractors) of lots with no construction on site pay fees to the KPOA ? If so, will the proposed annexed lot owners pay the same fees prior to construction?
When a lot is platted, the lot owner (either KEI/Lee King or the individual) pays the KPOA annual assessment for lots which is currently $930. The usual practice for the past 15+ years is that KEI/Lee King plats lots as they are sold. When home or cottage construction starts, non-refundable and refundable deposits are paid. When the home is occupied, then the homeowner pays the $1,240 annual KPOA assessment.
Thanks for your quick response. I take it from your response that the owner(King) of the proposed annexation will not pay any fee to the KPOA for the annexed area until the lots are sold, but have full use of our current infrastructure.
Answer: UPDATE 7/30/2019: See KEI Financial Commitment Package Net cost of the annexation to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
First of all, thank you for the research on this proposed property. None of us can make a decision without attending the meetings and getting all the info. Do you have any idea of the cost to the existing residents? Ballpark of course. Thank you.
Our KPOA Treasurer is digging into the nuts and bolts as we speak. He is also conferring with the Road Maintenance Committee and Security Committee. Rest assured that the KPOA Board would not have recommended a KPOA property owner vote on this issue if the fiscal impact would have a significant negative impact for property owners and/or KPOA. So, stay tuned. Our KPOA Treasurer will be getting specifics out soon. Thanks for educating yourself so that you can make an informed decision. UPDATE 7/30/2019: See KEI Financial Commitment Package Net cost of the annexation to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
Reply: Thank you for the quick response to my email. We have lived in Kenmure for 15 years since moving out of the Bay Area having lived there for 36 years. If the vote is positive, we are more than happy to absorb some small increase in return for the enjoyment of living in Kenmure. We do not want to see the CC sold to a negligent buyer in spite of the fact we are not members. Have a nice day.
David & Susan Stagg
A question that we have not seen posed relates to the financial incentive being offered, to us the $1000 per lot seems insignificant. Clearly King has considerable expenses in developing this property but what is his predicted gain by having this parcel integrated into Kenmure? What is the current market value outside of Kenmure vs inside? If King owns this property then his investment was speculative with expectation to integrate (and all predictions of a pig farm would therefore only be in spite and would therefore be akin to cutting off his nose to spite his face, a separate controlled development being far more likely.) I suspect that the $1000 per lot is far under value and is also neither linked to inflation of market prices for land within Kenmure, $1000 now will not be $1000 in 10 years, we KPOA need to be far smarter, IMHO, on the business front.
I apologize for the delay getting back to you. The KPOA Board is in the process of reviewing all of the financial data and will be getting it to everyone soon. The Board also continues to talk with Lee King and KEI. The cash is only one part of the negotiations. KEI is also providing other incentives, including, but not limited to a new gate (with Bar Code reader). Stay tuned. Thanks for your patience! UPDATE 7/30/2019: See KEI Financial Commitment Package Net cost of the annexation to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
It has been suggested that the development of the new area will increase the value of the existing homes in Kenmure. Further, it has been suggested that there will be additional costs associated with the maintenance of this new area that will be passed on to the existing residents in our annual homeowners fee. So, in addition to the development of the budget for the cost to the KPOA for entire new development (Bill’s Question #2), will a cost benefit analysis and a budget cost analysis be completed and sent to us for review prior to the vote in September?
Doug Moe is putting together more detailed income/expense information. The Board hopes to get that to all KPOA members by the end of this month and well before the September vote. UPDATE 7/30/2019: See KEI Financial Commitment Package Net cost of the annexation to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
Aug 2, 2019
Subject: A Realistic Cash Flow Budget for Adding the 60 Acres
My Fellow Kenmure Residents, based on my extensive experience with technical and budgetary analysis of residential communities and the development of communities containing 20,000 residential homes over 40 years, I’ve determined that the proposed annexation of the 60 acres will result in a cash shortfall of $157,101, which will have to be covered by Kenmure residents unless we negotiate a better deal with Lee King.
After my meeting with the full Board on 7/12 and a second meeting with three Board Representatives on 7/24, I am concerned that they do not clearly understand the cost implications of adding the outside 60 acres to the existing Kenmure community. At the full Board meeting, I was told there were no costs to the community for this addition. I explained that there would be costs and gave the example of one lot under construction after we accepted the road, generating $930/year in dues to pay for all the road costs, reserves, and security.
I then told them there were multiple solutions to cover the costs. First, KEI could record or pay dues on enough lots to cover the costs, or KEI could keep the roads until a number of lots were sold and homes built for those dues to cover the costs. I also volunteered to help them with this budget preparation and even negotiate with KEI. I later sent a blank budget form tailored for Kenmure to aid them in completing a budget, since it had not previously been done. At the 7/24 meeting I again offered my expert help to no avail. I also offered to review their budget, when prepared, so that we could be in agreement when they presented it. Again to no avail.
During the July 30 Town Hall, the Board presented their first budget since this effort began, including costs for road maintenance, thanks to Andy Clapper. They also did simple math to determine that it took KEI paying dues on 15 lots to basically cover the cost of road maintenance. I thanked the Board at the meeting for making progress, but I told them they would need to do more to cover all the costs.
So I am presenting the attached budget to show you how large a hole this approach will dig in our KPOA finances. My budget used the Hollybrook Drive lot sales and home completions per year as the basis for generating revenue to KPOA. It could be worse or it could be better. At the Town Halls, Lee suggested that the market is slowing. I used Andy Clapper’s numbers for all road costs in the time frame he placed them. I used Doug Moe’s numbers for non-road expenses. The only thing I added was the allocated security cost that should have been included. This was simply a 5% allocation, which was the same as Andy used for the road costs, because the 60 acres and one-mile road are 5% of the acreage and roads in the community. I also added a little extra gasoline for the security vehicle. The Board may not like this because they don’t see any significant costs in the near future. However, all portions of the community must be allocated their share of costs or we will inevitably find that the Residents are paying more to cover these neglected costs. I will explain this more in another email message.
In summary, if we accept the deal the Board has suggested, improved over their original no-cost deal, the KPOA must supplement the costs for the 60 acres until it breaks even in 2038. At that time we will have supplemented the costs to the tune of $157,101, which is based directly on the math.
I stand ready to answer any questions anyone may have. Email or call me at 704-995-4981.
Fact & Fiction
Aug 5, 2019
Dear Kenmure Property Owners,
Question: What do the numbers “400” and “$157,101” have in common? These numbers are presented by an anonymous group of residents who call themselves Kenmure Concerned Residents.
Answer: They are both fictitious numbers designed to confuse you or, perhaps, scare you into voting NO on the annexation issue. Or, maybe the purpose of the opposition’s email campaign is to make you so annoyed by this process that you don’t vote… and a non-vote counts as a NO vote.
- Fictitious Number “400” – that is, the number of estimated trips per day on Chatsworth Court (after the annexation). Fictitious “400” has been debunked by the KPOA Board’s Traffic Facts which show an average of 5 one-way trips/day/household in Brookwood Village and Pinnacle Peak Lane area. You do the math. When the 39 homes are built on the 60-acre parcel, there may be 195 one-way trips, including ALL traffic (during a 24 hour period or 8 per hour). Much less than the fictitious 400 trips per day which also DID NOT include non-household traffic. AND, all construction traffic will use the Mt. Olivet Gate.
So, now that the Traffic FACTS are known, the anonymous resident group needs another fictitious number to confuse or scare you and that is…
- Fictitious Number “$157,101” – the number that the anonymous resident group’s spokesperson, Bill Daleure, calculates is the ‘shortage’ in the Board’s annexation income/expense analysis. Most of this projected shortfall is for additional security and is based upon an assumption that an additional mile of road (or 5% of Kenmure’s total roads) will require a 5% increase in security. This is false. Security requirements are determined on an ongoing basis by the Kenmure Security Committee and the KPOA Board and are not based on how many miles of road are patrolled. As the KPOA Board explained (both in the PowerPoint presentation and in answer to a question from Mr. Daleure at the July 30 Town Hall), the KPOA Board does not anticipate additional expenses for Security to be attributed to the annexed parcel. It is clear that the anonymous resident group did not like or accept this answer.
KEI FINANCIAL COMMITMENT PACKAGE: KPOA has negotiated
- a guaranteed income stream for the annexed parcel, and
- if there are any unanticipated costs, a $30,000 reserve.
KEI also is reimbursing KPOA for all costs associated with this property owner vote.
So, the KPOA Board stands by its income/expense analysis: ZERO COST to current property owners.
We ask that YOU – ALL KPOA property owners – base your annexation vote on FACTS not on FICTION.
Why Vote YES? To protect all our property values by avoiding incompatible development on the 60-acre parcel.
If you have any questions or comments, please reply to this Kenmure Alert or email: KenmureQuestions@gmail.com
From Concerned Pinnacle Peak and Hollybrook residents not opting for anonymity
Andy Clapper & Barb Smith, Andy & Margie Scott, Mary Ann & Larry Stewart, June & Larry Rostetter, Don Lynn Johnson
We are concerned residents of Pinnacle Peak and Hollybrook that are not represented by the “Kenmure Concerned Residents” and we are not anonymous. Most of our properties border the proposed 60 acre annex.
We don’t know who or how many the “Concerned Residents” are. We do know that replies to messages from “Concerned Residents” did not go to all of the addressees of those messages. They went to the originator and were not shared with the larger audience. Responses that challenged the inaccurate information being disseminated were not shared. So much for open discussion.
We have followed the arguments for and against the annexation and conclude that we support this proposal. The arguments against annexation have been demonstrated to be inaccurate in many ways.
Many different issues have been discussed but we believe the overriding and strategic issue is the future use of the 60 acres abutting our properties. The options are:
Development by KEI
We have confidence that Lee King will meet his commitments to KPOA because that is his track record. KEI survived the financial crash that began in 2008 and lasted for many years. Many communities such as ours failed or foundered with great loss of property value during that time.
KEI and KPOA have a history of effective collaboration. Each party recognizes that the problems of one can impact the other.
Other Development Possibilities
County Zoning for R2R property such as the 60 acres permits commercial, agricultural, industrial and residential development (much higher density allowed). Short setbacks to adjoining properties are allowed. Use of any of these development options can have a significant negative impact on property values for Kenmure residents south of Pinnacle Mountain Road, and by ripple effect, extend to the rest of Kenmure. Even a small percentage impact is tens of thousands of dollars in property value.
A variety of Issues have been raised as reasons for rejecting the annexation. Such issues need to clear a high bar if they are to be decisive.
Large numbers describing future traffic have been put forward that do not stand up to fact-based analysis. Assumptions about the number of occupied residences, daily trips, number of cars per residence and other visitors were not descriptive of the Kenmure environment. The front gate will see an increase in traffic of about ½ percent a year for ten years. Three streets in Kenmure will be affected. Tarnhill Drive, a segment of Pinnacle Peak Lane and a segment of Chatsworth Court. When the new area is substantially built out over ten years, these roads will see an additional passing vehicle every 8-10 minutes.
The recent work done on all Kenmure roads will extend their lives beyond earlier projections. Due to more advanced technology, the short length, and limited use, the life of Applewood is expected to be 18 years. In summary, maintenance cost per mile per property owner will be lower than historical experience.
The Board and the Security Committee and the Treasurer have years of experience in determining the
Security budget and we have confidence in their plan. Their message of August 4 said there was no incremental Security cost attributed to the potentially annexed property.
Suggestions have been made that the KPOA Board is not competent to handle this matter and may be naïve about working with KEI. The increase in property assessments has averaged about 1% per year for about ten years. As for working with KEI, drive in the gate and take a look to remind yourself that what you see is the result of KEI and KPOA working together.
We believe the budget presented by the Board is realistic, experience-based and perhaps conservative in some areas. We are confident that the package negotiated between KPOA and KEI will result in ZERO added net costs in the near-term and a favorable impact to costs over the long- term.
The other issues raised by residents during the process were worth identifying and evaluating. They have not been shown to have any significance and are secondary to the overriding and strategic issue of how the 60 acres will be developed and by whom.
Aug 5, 2019
I recently reviewed the spread sheet distributed by the spokesperson for “Concerned Citizens” because I was concerned by the following statement that accompanied the spread sheet: In summary, if we accept the deal the Board has suggested, improved over their original no-cost deal, the KPOA must supplement the costs for the 60 acres until it breaks even in 2038. At that time we will have supplemented the costs to the tune of $157,101, which is based directly on the math.”
A cursory examination of the spread sheet producing the $157,101 figure reveals that much of the excessive cost attributed to the annexation comes from one category: “Bring 1 part time officer to full time +20 Hrs/Wk, then allocate at 5% of community, like roads”. That cost is budgeted in the spread sheet at $18,523 dollars per year. Since the $157,101 figure is derived from the cumulative total for 17 years of expenditures, it’s worth noting that the total cost for that part-time position is $315,741.
However, the July 31 email distributed to all Kenmure residents states the following: The KPOA board believes there will no need for increased security staff or hours.
Why, then, was funding for this 1/2 time position included in the spread sheet?
The net result of removing from the spread sheet that 1/2 time position, then, means that instead of Kenmure residents providing a $157101 supplement, they would actually be showing a surplus of $158,640 ($315,741 – $157,101)!
Note that no other figures provided by “Concerned Citizens” have been examined or challanged, as my comments are “based directly on the math.”
Perhaps “Concerned Citizens” would like to explain to those of us whom they may presume to be “Less Concerned Citizens” their rationale for including a budgetary item that has not been proposed by the KPOA Board.
James “Doug” Magnus
The Biggest problem is KEI pays no KPOA dues like everyone else. I am fine if they pay KPOA dues like everyone else. The KPOA BOARD should know that.
Thanks for letting us know your position. And, you are correct that KEI does not pay on its lots that are not platted with Henderson County. I think that there are about 20 or so lots remaining in the Hollybrook area. This has been a long-standing practice in Kenmure. At the Board’s August Meeting, I will ask the Board to research this practice and make a recommendation.
I do want to point out that this KPOA Board has negotiated for the 60-acre parcel an income stream of 15x the current lot assessment from KEI so that the net cost to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
So, even though you disagree with the current long-standing practice, your concern has been addressed by the Board (at least partially) as it applies to the 60 acre parcel.
Let me know if you have any additional questions. Voting will open on Sept 3 and will close on Sept 23. Thanks in advance for voting!
President KPOA Board
There was little new information presented at the meeting that occurred on August 6th, just a week after the July 30th Town Hall. I was prepared to show and discuss the cash flow budget previously sent out, which showed that under the current proposal the 60 acres did not pay its fair share of the security cost allocation. I intended to lay out what was needed to solve that problem. The KPOA Board would not let me show this on their presentation screen, so I simply talked through my points. For the proposed 60 acres to fully cover the road and security costs, KEI needs to pay dues on 31 lots instead of the 15 lots committed to so far. I have attached the revised cash flow budget for your information. During my presentation I asked Lee King this question: “Would you be willing to consider paying dues on 31 lots to solve the financial problem with this annexation?” I was then interrupted by the KPOA President, who would not let Lee King answer that question and stated that the matter was between KPOA and KEI.
Later in the meeting, a resident raised the cost question again by saying that although my cash flow budget was correct, the security cost was being paid by the KPOA now, so the KPOA disagrees with the allocation of this cost. I respect that opinion and said that the allocation of all costs to each section of a neighborhood is essential to make sure we don’t have a recurrence of what has happened with the Hollybrook development. There are currently 23 unplatted lots not paying dues to help cover the cost of the Hollybrook section of our community. This amounts to $21,390 per year that KPOA is not receiving, which means your dues are currently about $26 per home and $20 per lot higher than need be. By requiring KEI to pay dues on 31 lots instead of 15 lots for the 60-acre annexation, we will be more fiscally responsible and ensure that all portions of the community pay their fair share of the costs.
Later still in the meeting, the KPOA President stated that when the Board meets again they will discuss having KEI pay dues on the remaining 23 lots on Hollybrook. I applauded KPOA for this move and wish them every success in this important task.
This was the last scheduled Town Hall concerning the requested annexation. I’m not sure why, since there is a lot of room for improvement of KEI’s proposal. Stay tuned for further discussion regarding the proposed annexation in the coming weeks. Voting will start on September 3rd and conclude on September 23rd. We stand ready to answer any questions you may have and encourage you to stay involved.
Susan Boland, KPOA Board President
Yes, I did not let Lee King answer the question posted by Bill Daleure for two reasons:
- The question was based upon a false assumption (additional security is needed) and even more suspect budget projections. See Annexation Questions & Answers [See Bruce Southard comment as well as verbal comments at the Third Town Hall Meeting]
- Bill Daleure represents an unknown number of anonymous residents. KPOA represents ALL property owners. Over the past three months, KPOA has listened to property owner suggestions and has negotiated the KEI Financial Commitment Package based upon REAL COSTS (FACTS). The KPOA Board acts and negotiates in the best interests of ALL property owners.
Why is the KPOA Board recommending incorporation of these 60 acres into Kenmure?
In 2012, KEI proposed incorporating the 60-acre parcel into Kenmure. At that time, the KPOA Board recommended a YES vote. The proposal only failed by about 24 votes, so although the recommendation was widely supported, it was just shy of the 67% YES votes required of all KPOA members to amend the Declaration. Today, approximately 560 votes would be required to amend the Declaration; not voting is a NO vote. We all know that the real estate market was depressed for several years. KEI has determined that the market conditions are such that development of this parcel as part of Kenmure now makes economic sense. In 2019, after full consideration, the KPOA Board agreed to KEI’s request to have a member vote to amend the Kenmure Declaration to incorporate KEI’s 60-acre parcel on our southern boundary into Kenmure as Phase VII.
This is not a re-vote of the 2012 proposal. While it is the same 60 acres, this time the proposed development is configured quite differently. The new proposal adds more parcels and, therefore, more parcels with which to share our KPOA expenses (primarily, road maintenance, security, and garbage collection). In addition to the usual, new home fees, KEI also will pay $1,000 per lot when platted. See below What does KPOA gain. The new proposal also adds properties similar to existing Kenmure properties instead of the 10 larger (5+ acre) lots proposed in 2012.
The KPOA Board has a duty to investigate KEI’s proposal. The KPOA Board has looked at all the factors and, in evaluating those factors, the Board has a duty to tell you – the KPOA members – the Board’s assessment of the project. Thus, we are recommending a YES vote. The KPOA Board is committed to ensuring that you have all the facts so that you can make your decision.
Why is it important to annex this 60-acre parcel currently owned by KEI into Kenmure?
The Henderson County zoning on the parcel is R2R. The R2R zoning has a wide range of permissible uses, including:
1) small to estate-sized lots, 2) manufactured homes, to apartments to multiple residences, 3) B&B, Inns, 4) Adult and Childcare facilities, 5) Camps, and 6) Agricultural use.
R2R Zoning – Permitted Uses
Annexation of this 60-acre parcel into Kenmure (which is zoned R-1) would ensure that homes and cottages — which are bound by Kenmure’s covenants and KPOA Rules — are built in this adjoining property. Simply put, incorporating the 60-acre parcel into Kenmure removes the uncertainty of incompatible development. It provides and protects Kenmure’s southern border with homes of similar aesthetics and preserves our property values.
Why is this vote being held this year?
As mentioned above, while this issue is new to some residents, it is not a new issue for KPOA. LRPC updated its report and the Board met with KEI. KEI and the Board has also met with adjoining property owners and some nearby residents. Three meetings will be held with residents and all KPOA members will be updated by email and mail. Prior to the September vote, all KPOA members will receive written materials. And, quite frankly, this decision is not all that complicated. Do you want KEI to develop the property with Kenmure homes/cottages or do you want to roll the dice on the future use of the property? Which scenario do you think will have a better impact on your property’s value?
Why is this proposal so different from the 2012 proposal?
The real estate markets between 2012 and 2019 are not comparable. The trend in housing is toward smaller lots and smaller homes. The 10 lots proposed in 2012 would be approximately +/-6 acres per lot. It is doubtful that 10 estate homes would generate the KPOA fees necessary to support the increased road maintenance and other expenses.
When will the Board and their committees develop a complete budget for the cost of this development to the KPOA, including an annual cost per year for the next 10-15 years, based on the length of road and right of way, additional security personnel costs
(which KPOA President Susan Boland said was necessary), additional security gate cost and maintenance, road reserve costs, snow removal, mowing of right of way, added maintenance to existing Kenmure roads, etc? What if only one home is built requiring services? We need to know exactly how much this will cost KPOA and what revenue will help to defer those costs.
See KEI Financial Commitment Package Net cost of the annexation to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
I’ve been following both sides of the annexation proposal. Would you be so kind as to answer the questions below. It was also suggested you put the questions and answers on Kenmure.org as I am not the only one wanting to know.
On Friday, August 16, the Election Committee will determine the number of eligible votes. The numbers below are pretty close. I will update this response after Friday.
So, here are ballpark numbers:
If everyone who is given a vote and all cast their vote: How many votes would be cast? 830 (or so) eligible property owners
What is the number of total votes needed to make the election legitimate? A majority? The total number of votes cast.
How many “yes for the annexation “ votes will it take to pass? 67% of the total number of eligible votes = 556 (or so) property owners
If one chooses not to vote at all will those votes be considered “no against the annexation “? Yes, a non-vote = a No Vote
KPOA Board President
My husband and I purchased our lot on Chatsworth Ct. in 2009, with the goal of building our forever home once our daughter was off to college and we retired. Over the years, as land owners, we have received numerous emails regarding the social and philanthropic opportunities Kenmure had to offer. Needless to say, we were very excited to begin the building process and ultimately move into our new home. We have found our overall experience to be above and beyond what we could have possibly hoped for at Kenmure. Kenmure is home to so many welcoming, accomplished professionals, talented artists and overall amazing individuals and I feel very fortunate (and humbled) to have had the opportunity to meet and befriend a number so far.
One person in particular is Bill DaLeure. Bill is a very successful professional developer who has built numerous housing developments throughout North and South Carolina. So I am confused as to why his counsel on the annexation proposal has been discounted? Personally, I seek out professionals when counsel is needed on topics outside of my personal expertise. Bill is a professional. His suggestions to date have lead to an increased financial contribution from KEI to KPOA. While this is an improvement from the original KEI proposal, I trust Bill’s professional counsel that the current proposal still jeopardizes KPOA’s exposure in the future. Why in a development with so many talented individuals are we not listening to the individual with the most experience?
KPOA Board VP
Thank you for your note. The KPOA Board has met with Bill on several occasions to discuss the annexation issues and has listened to his input, as well as the input of many other Kenmure individuals, at the various community wide meetings. The annexation proposal has been improved based on community input, including input from Bill.
We have pointed out to Bill, and to the community, the various factual premises that Bill has advanced that we have disagreed with. We have made our decisions base on accurate facts, not the fictions that he has advanced on behalf of the opposition, and on the opinions of many residents, including many professionals. We disagree with Bill’s opinion that the current proposal jeopardizes KPOA. We believe Lee King has the most knowledge and experience regarding the development of Kenmure.
All of the reasons we recommend that the annexation be approved are set forth on the KPOA website. We urge you to vote, and urge you to vote in favor of the annexation.
Homes / Real Estate
What will be the size of homes and their value in Phase VII?
Lee King stated at the July 8th Town Hall Meeting that the homes would be a mixture of Cottages and Estate Homes. All construction would meet KPOA requirements. Recently new Cottages have been selling for $450,000 and higher. Estate Homes in Kenmure sell for $500,000 to over $1 Million.
At the 7/8 meeting, it was approximated that there are still 150 vacant lots in Kenmure; currently, 53 of the lots are for sale. Of the total 150 lots, how many of those are “buildable” meaning they will perk and no more than site prep and foundation work of $150,000? (We realize that this is a guesstimate.)
As of 7/13, the number of Kenmure lots is 147. Of those. 45 lots are for sale. I don’t think anyone knows how many lots are ‘buildable’ as you outlined, although I’m sure that the lot owners bought in anticipation of building. Need that crystal ball.
If the annexation is approved, will KEI allow adjoining Kenmure property owners the first right to purchase land that abuts their property?
From Lee King: Absolutely he will give adjoining property owners a right of first refusal.
Has the Board asked any of the Impacted Residents if we feel we need this protection? Is the Board going to protect the Proposed Development’s southern and western borders? Why not protect all the borders around Kenmure?
The Board had a meeting with adjoining property owners and other nearby residents on June 18. Some favor the annexation, while others do not. KPOA has been given a unique opportunity to act in the best interests of the entire community by supporting the annexation of the 60 acres known as Phase VII. If given the opportunity to have control over other borders that perimeter Kenmure, the KPOA Board would evaluate each border situation as the opportunity arises. The most impacted residents were, indeed, consulted at a June 18 meeting. As a result of that meeting, Lee has agreed to a 35′ rear setback for properties that abut Phase VI. And, efforts have focused on ensuring that all construction traffic is required to use the Mt. Olivet Gate.
One of the biggest reasons we have heard for moving this forward is the fear that if KEI does not continue to be involved in Kenmure, Lee King could leave and sell the golf course and club to someone else. If this is a driving reason, then shouldn’t the Board be working hard to solve that problem rather than trying to hold Lee King here to continue developing until he is 90 years old? From item 9 above he has 8 to 12 more years here already.
Long Range planning has been working on a variety of scenarios in regards to the eventual sale of KCC since 2008. The KPOA met with Long Range Planning on July 12, 2019, and plans to reconvene in the near future. However, we firmly believe the annexation is worthwhile on its own merits regardless of ownership. If the property is annexed and later sold by KEI, Kenmure covenants and restrictions and Kenmure’s rules and regulations will continue to apply to each lot.
What does this oversupply of lots do to all Kenmure property values?
The additional lots would be available for people moving into the area looking to relocate in Western North Carolina.
Since 2010 Henderson County has had a population growth rate each year (see chart).
Year Population Growth Growth Rate
2018 116,748 1,291 1.12%
2017 115,457 1,734 1.52%
2016 113,723 1,797 1.61%
2015 111,926 1,656 1.50%
2014 110,270 1,385 1.27%
2013 108,885 1,117 1.04%
2012 107,768 409 0.38%
2011 107,359 472 0.44%
Hello, my name is Laurel Hunt and I am at 178 Pinnacle Peak Lane. My question is, what data was used by the Board to determine that the proposed annexation will have a positive effect on Kenmure property values? All I have seen are some statistics about people moving into Henderson County and statements that there is demand for cottage style homes such as Kenmure offers. However, other data indicates that demand for Kenmure lot sales is slow, and due to tariffs and other factors, building costs especially in mountains are high and may discourage many people from building. The proposed annexation is also remote from amenities and involves navigating steep hills and narrow streets to access, which many people find undesirable especially as they age. And due to the remote location, the property will be difficult to ensure security of current and future residents and timely access of emergency vehicles. From a practical standpoint this parcel seems to have a lot of negatives and few, if any positives to offer as an extension of Kenmure.
Thank you for your inquiry as to how approving the proposed annexation will have a positive effect on Kenmure property values. You are absolutely correct in that people moving into Henderson County are seeking smaller homes. In addition, a number of current Kenmure residents are at the point in their lives where they want to downsize but remain in the Kenmure community. Unfortunately, there just is not a sufficient amount of re-sale inventory in the ‘smaller home’ category available. And most condo’s, villa’s and cottages often are in need of renovation, which does not appeal to most folks who would rather build to their specifications than go through the long, frustrating process of a renovation. Accordingly, we feel this proposal will provide an opportunity for existing Kenmure residents to relocate to a smaller home while remaining in the community as well as appeal to other folks moving from out of the area seeking the same.
Looking back at when Lee King purchased the property adjacent to Kenmure known as Berwick Downs, some folks were skeptical as to what that development may look like. It is now virtually sold out, provides a beautiful view looking across the golf course and a number of Kenmure residents have relocated there – specifically to downsize but remain ‘connected’ to the community. This is the same concept that is proposed for the 60 acres under discussion. Feel free to take a drive through Berwick Downs and get a feel for what the annexed parcel may look like.
Again, you are right that getting to the annexed parcel will involve navigating steep hills and narrow streets. However, that is true throughout Kenmure and it doesn’t seem to adversely affect sales in the Cottages (up Tarnhill Drive) or Brookwood Village (up Overlook and Chestnut Drive).
As for easy access for emergency vehicles, it is our understanding that Green River Fire & Rescue is building a substation near Mt. Olivet Rd and Pinnacle Mountain Road. In addition, it is anticipated that this ingress/egress will be designated as an “emergency exit” in the unfortunate event the community would have to be evacuated. We currently have only 2 emergency exits in addition to the main gate.
Hopefully, this information will be helpful to you in reaching a decision on your vote. Please feel free to let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns and we will do our best to answer them.
Downside / Traffic /Security
What are the plans for Security of Kenmure, particularly Phase VII and Mt Olivet Road?
KEI has committed to bring all construction traffic into Phase VII through a new gate to be installed by KEI from Mt Olivet Road. KPOA will take part in the planning of this new gate, which is to remain as a permanent gate once home construction begins.
There are downsides with any new project, what are they?
Construction noise, construction and resident traffic.
According to KEI, it could take 10-12 years to plat/sell these lots and build these homes. Of course, this time frame is market dependent. Construction is always inconvenient for adjacent property owners. KEI has agreed that construction traffic to install infrastructure will enter/exit through a new electronic gate on Mt. Olivet Road. Thereafter, home construction traffic also would be routed to the Mt. Olivet Gate. Resident access to this parcel would be primarily via Chatsworth Court, Thus, over time (10 years or more), traffic on this court will increase as homes are added. This increase may be somewhat less if residents and vendors use the new Mt. Olivet Gate. See Traffic Fact
Increased traffic from the new development is estimated between 160 and 400 trips per day. Will you be conducting a traffic study or measuring traffic in specific areas of the community to narrow this traffic count down?
The 400 trips per day estimate — based upon unnamed NCDOT studies measuring weekday traffic in urban/suburban neighborhoods — is not applicable to Kenmure’s mostly retiree gated community in a small mountain town. You received a recent Kenmure Alert (7/13/2019) with actual traffic numbers downloaded from Kenmure’s radar speed sign. Traffic Facts
Actual Kenmure numbers indicate that, on average in the short term, residents might expect 3 extra cars per hour. Accordingly, there will be a few additional cars on Chatsworth Court (probably starting after 2022). Based upon the actual traffic numbers, however, this increase will be barely noticeable. Of course, if homes are built on all 39 proposed lots that number could increase to 9 extra cars per hour.
As promised in the July 13 Kenmure Alert, the KPOA Board has embarked on a mission to study traffic in specific areas of the community. Stay tuned.
As you assess the merits of the 60-acre annexation (only one component of which is any increased traffic), the Board encourages you to rely on actual Kenmure traffic numbers. The Board also encourages you to rely on yo.ur experience as Kenmure residents. Is there a traffic jam at Scenic Dr. and Brookwood Village (with its 59 condos)? No. So there is even less chance of traffic congestion on Chatsworth Court (with only 39 proposed lots). The overriding issue is will the addition of these Kenmure style homes benefit our community.
Will you commit to a security gate that requires a residents’ bar code to access this proposed entrance when entering and leaving?
Lee has committed to a gate at the entrance of Mount Olivet Road and blocking or securing the entrance to Chatsworth while the infrastructure is being established. Construction traffic will be required to use the Mount Olivet Road entrance. If contractors are not following directives fines could be issued. There are no internal gates in Kenmure and it should remain this way.
I thought I understood that the Olivet Gate would be used for all construction/ contractor traffic, thus eliminating this traffic flow from entering off of Chatsworth. Is this something that can be instituted to eliminate nearby resident concerns? Post-construction traffic should be similar to the Founders Drive loop and, I can attest, there is no traffic problem here.
Yes, the plan is that the Mt. Olivet Gate would be used for all construction (infrastructure and new home construction) traffic. And, yes, this should eliminate nearby resident concerns. I agree with you that post-construction traffic would be similar to Founders loop where you live and Pinnacle Peak loop where I live.
The Board indicates each home in Kenmure averages 3.7 trips per day. KEI???s new development will have 39 homes. There are currently 6 homes on Chatsworth Court and 2 lots for sale.
Using the Board???s estimate, the 6 homes on Chatsworth Court currently generate 6 x 3.7 or 22 trips per day. KEI???s development, when built out, will add 39 x 3.7 or 144 trips per day on the 300 yard, blind curve stretch of Chatsworth Court. In other words, there will be 6.5 times more traffic on Chatsworth Court than there is today. Not a small increase in traffic.
Are there any Courts in Kenmure today with 6 homes, blind curves handling 166 trips per day on a 300 yard stretch of road? If so, which Courts are they?
According to realtor.com, no lots are currently for sale on Chatsworth Court, although I do see that two lots do not currently have homes on them. The traffic on Chatsworth Court for the current six homes (and possibly two additional homes) will be there whether the 60-acre parcel is annexed.
Thank you for using the Board’s data from our radar speed sign. This data is for Kenmure Drive location. The Board continues to gather data in Kenmure at specific locations in order to refine this data.
While your math is correct, what you and others are not accounting for is the reality of development and life in Kenmure. Experience along Pinnacle Peak Lane indicates that after 10 years about ¼ of the lots will not be developed because the owners have bought them for investment purposes or for a future retirement location. Some lots will be purchased as buffer lots and never have a home on them. Some of homeowners will be part time spending winters in warmer places. Most of the homeowners will spend a number of weeks per year away from home for vacation and family travel. Yes, there will be some additional cars on Chatsworth Court. No one can predict with any certainty how many — certainly not me and certainly not you. But, given the Kenmure experience, reports of traffic congestion on Chatsworth Court (based upon 39 homes occupied full-time) are speculative at best and downright misleading at worst.
Also, Chatsworth’s terrain is similar to terrain throughout Kenmure and we all manage to traverse blind curves and areas with limited visibility. The Road Maintenance Committee can address improving sightlines in the area.
Thanks for your reply. I will let Mr. Prefer and Mr. Wolf know their lots are not in Realtor.com. Both gentlemen believe their lots are listed. Gail read the lot description for Mr. Wolf’s lot the other day from Realtor.com. I might add, the writer should win an award for creative writing. Maybe this is why they have not sold.
I’ve owned a home in Kenmure for 14 years. 5 years at 203 Maple Hill Drive and the last 9 years at 273 Chatsworth Court. I have seen with my own eyes a dramatic increase in traffic, especially in daylight hours over the years. One of our neighbors on Pinnacle Peak Lane, who works out in her yard a lot, said there is a lot of traffic on Pinnacle Peak Lane, a lot more than the Board realizes.
I used the data from the Kenmure radar sign because it shows what the low side of the real traffic number would be. The real number of trips is somewhere between what the Board’s published 3.7 trips per day and NC DOT’s 9-10. At the same time I am glad the Board continues to gather data and I look forward to hearing more about it.
Common sense – intelligence guided by experience suggests there are more than 3.7 trips per day. For example, each house will more than likely have two cars. Everyone on our cul de sac does. At least one of those cars will leave the garage each day. Going out and returning is 2 trips. If a family is working or has children, it is more likely the second car will make trips, adding at least 2 more trips per day. And if they have teenagers driving, there will be a lot more.
The Postal Delivery lady makes a daily stop at my house (2 trips), UPS or FedEx comes frequently since we purchase a lot of stuff from Amazon (2 trips). Our gardener is in at least one time a week (2 trips) most of the time two days (4 trips) and depending on planting and work we are having done more frequently. Security is by our home 4 or more times a day (8 trips). Service people travel Chatsworth Court frequently. Add family/friends, internal trips, Maybin and you are well past 3.7 trips per day per house.
There have been many times when Chatsworth Court has been barely passable when the two homes were under construction. And in more recent times, we have had many folks coming just to understand the traffic concern. I counted six one day. And while it is true some of the homes will be vacation homes, when the people are here, there will also likely be heavier congestion because of visiting family and friends.
You are right about one thing, no one knows exactly how much traffic will be on Chatsworth Court. One thing is for sure, it will be dramatically more than the traffic today and 3.7 trips per household is on the very low end.
You say it is misleading for me to use your estimate of how much traffic there will be on Chatsworth Court. I argue it is misleading for the Board to minimize and down play the traffic/safety. No Board member lives on Chatsworth Court. No other Court in Kenmure has (or will have) 2 ingress/egress points on it. Landowners/residents on Chatsworth Court purchased their property for the low traffic and quiet serenity it offered. We walk our dogs frequently on our street. We were not informed and had no idea our lives could be disrupted and permanently changed by a road leading to a subdivision. And no Court in Kenmure has anywhere near the traffic this project will dump (166 cars per day by the Board’s own estimate) on Chatsworth Court to traverse a 300 yard, blind curve stretch of road to and from Pinnacle Peak Lane.
One resident I spoke with calls Tarnhill “snake road.” He refuses to travel it and uses back roads. I have almost been hit twice in the last month going up and down Tarnhill by construction and lawn maintenance vehicles. You have to agree that this will only get worse with the addition of 39 homes.
Susan, it is becoming more obvious to KPOA members by the day that the Board made a hasty decision to have a vote and to endorse KEI’s proposal. Making a decision without a Plat map; without a budget to understand the financial impact on KPOA members; without talking to residents most affected; without understanding the traffic and safety risks to people most affected and those throughout Kenmure; without addressing the LRPC’s questions/concerns; without negotiating with KEI (for ex. KPOA taking over roads after 1 year instead of when the project is 75% completed was a real error given that the roads will be significantly damaged during years of construction of houses); without looking at ingress/egress alternatives from the proposed subdivision that would make it safer; without understanding the environmental impact of the project; without understanding the increased traffic impact to our neighbors, the people living on and around Mt. Olivet Road, and the list goes on. It is equally obvious that the Board is scrambling to answer the questions they know they should have asked before endorsing the annexation. This is the most important decision Kenmure will make. Every question deserves a reasoned, researched, well thought answer. That simply doesn’t happen in 2 months.
I urge you and the Board to step back and call off the vote until everyone’s questions have been thoroughly researched and answered. KEI is not going anywhere. If Lee could have sold the land to someone else, he would have done it a long time ago. Take a year to really study the issues. Get input from ALL the residents. Study alternatives. Think outside the box. Hire a consultant to advise and negotiate on behalf of the KPOA so WE get the best possible deal from KEI to vote on.
Last, but not least. I’ve served on many non-profit boards. The last one I served on for 11 years. I was elected president for my last two years of service. There were over 10,000 members and many differing opinions. I’ve seen a lot of boards in action. Frankly, and I don’t say this to be hurtful or disrespectful, I’ve never seen a more arrogant, condescending and hostile Board as the current KPOA Board. I realize what a thankless job board service can be, but this Board’s attitude toward KPOA members who have legitimate questions that need to be answered to make a good decision on the annexation is beyond the pale. The Board is pitting resident against resident. For many residents their home is the biggest investment in their life. What the Board is doing by forcing this vote is and has created animosity among neighbors that will last long after the annexation vote. I really don’t think you or this Board wants your legacy to be a Pyrrhic victory.
Gail B. McCulloch
The information says the Mt. Olivet Gate will have a “Bar Code Reader, up to 2 cameras and a generator.” Will cameras be recording and transmitting to manned front gate for real time monitoring? I’m not opposed to the idea of annexation, but think an unmanned entrances is inherently less secure than a manned entrance, so would like to know the security plan. Thanks.
Good question. I’m cc’ing the Board’s Security liaison, Greg Bennett. He can tell you what time of system is currently in place at the Argyle Gate.
The plan (at least initially) is to mirror the type of cameras at Argyle. However, we all know how fast technology improves and we’ll probably have at least 2 years to make sure we have exactly what we need to keep Kenmure as secure as possible.
Please let me know if you have any other questions. I hope you will consider a YES vote. Voting starts on September 3.
KPOA Board President
Thanks for the excellent question, Gail. The expectation is that the proposed Mt. Olivet gate would function in the same manner as the Argyle Gate. The cameras at Argyle are live cameras and are monitored by the Security Officers in the manned main gate. Using the cameras, they can see who is coming and going at the gate. Additionally, when a person without a barcode requests entry to Kenmure the Security Officers can see the person requesting entry. This is the plan for the Mt. Olivet gate as well.
Since we have requested a gate (like Berwick Downs gates) instead of the gate arms in use at the Argyle gate, I would anticipate the Mt. Olivet gate would be at least as secure as Argyle but most likely more secure.
I hope I have answered your questions fully. If you have additional questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me directly.
KPOA Board Director Security
Should KEI offer Club Membership to Phase VII homeowners?
Lee King addressed this at the July 8th Town Hall Meeting by saying “it is not in the cards”. The issue of mandatory Kenmure Country Club membership is not under consideration for this new parcel. All Kenmure property owners are encouraged to be Club members, but as always, membership is strictly volunteer for any of the three levels (Golf, Sport, or Social.) edited 8/7/2019
1. Did I misunderstand that KPOA dues are not paid by KEI until lots are sold and home built?
2. They are 23 lots in Kenmure that are not platted by KEI now.
3 . Does that mean these lots do not pay the annual KPOA dues?
4 . A lot of emphasis was placed on these lots protecting our borders. I am a full Golf Member now but are not their enough to justify a full membership. We need more full memberships to protect Kenmure and I think that would be great to make that a requirement of these lots . WE NEED PAYING MEMBERS TO PROTECT KENMURE COUNTRY CLUB.
In 2002, KPOA came into existence. In 2003, KPOA and KEI (and Phoenix – who was developing/building homes in the Founders/Bellshire area) entered an agreement. This agreement is the genesis of the Kenmure practice of KEI platting lots as they are sold. As KEI sells lots, it plats the lots with Henderson County and pays the current KPOA lot assessment ($930); after the sale closes, the new property owner pays the annual lot assessment. After the home is built, then the residential assessment is paid ($1,240).
So, yes 23 proposed lots are not platted and KPOA is not collecting annual assessments. But, again, this is Kenmure’s long-standing practice. Part of Phase IV, all of Phase VI (south of Pinnacle Mountain Road), and Phase VI have been developed in this way — probably 100 of Kenmure’s 675 or so homes. Our KPOA annual assessments maintained a fiscal balance during this time (2003-2019). I’m cc’ing our KPOA Treasurer, Doug Moe, and our Road Maintenance Committee liaison, Michael Shannon. Please feel free to email me or any of them with additional questions or concerns. The KPOA Board agrees that a thriving Kenmure Country Club protects all of our property values. The Board has encouraged KEI to include KCC membership as a part of its lot sales.
I am also a Developer and have 2 developments now. One is similar to Berwick except 1.5 times larger. The other is much larger with 230 lots. In our area of N Ga with the approval from the county final platting is done and your dues start. Then the lot taxes start and I guess the County Tax on a per lot basis doesn’t start either in Kenmure? What a Sweet deal for KEI. Thanks
What standards are used in the construction of new roads in Kenmure?
Lee King stated at the July 8th Town Hall Meeting that all roads constructed by KEI meet the requirements of KPOA and NCDOT in terms of layout, base course and asphalt thickness. The layout of the planned roads will be approved by Henderson County.
What alternate access to Kenmure from Phase VII have been considered?
Lee King addressed this at the July 8th Town Hall Meeting, stating that the best access to Phase VII is through Mt Olivet Road and Chatsworth Court. He further stated that alternatives to the Chatsworth Court access are much less desirable.
Would you please clarify? If there is no gate on Chatsworth, what is the plan to police the construction traffic over the 10+ year build out?
The plan is for all infrastructure construction traffic to enter/exit via the new Mt. Olivet Gate, road, electric, water, gas. To ensure that this happens, Lee King will install a locked gate at Chatsworth Court. Once the new road is complete (probably not before 2021), the locked gate will be removed and the road will be open for use by residents, realtors, etc. When new home construction starts, contractor traffic will be routed to the Mt. Olivet Gate. New Home Contractor traffic control is a collaborative effort between the Architectural Review Committee (KARC) and the Security Committee (KARC). KARC informs the general contractor that the contractor should ensure that construction traffic uses the Mt. Olivet Gate (including material delivery). KARC, then, tells KSC which home are under construction and which contractors, etc. must use the new Mt. Olivet Gate. On a day to day basis, if a contractor going to Phase VII comes to the Kenmure Main Gate, the security officers would redirect them to the Mt. Olivet Gate.
The satellite image attached shows the KEI 60 acres south of Kenmure that is being proposed for annexation into the Kenmure neighborhood. It also shows the proposed location for a security gate on Mount Olivet Road, which is remote to anything in Kenmure or anywhere else. The questions to be answered are:
1. What type of gate and ancillary facilities are required to maintain the safety and security of existing Kenmure residents?
2. How can it be protected from vandalism?
3. What will the annual maintenance cost be for the required installation?
4. How much time will the Security staff need to keep a watchful eye on the remote entry?
5. Note the large amount of undeveloped land surrounding Kenmure borders and the borders of the 60 acres. Should we be protecting all of Kenmure’s borders?
We invite you to drive out to the proposed gate location. Simply exit Kenmure via the Argyle Gate, turn left onto Pinnacle Mountain Road, and drive until you come to Mount Olivet Road on your left. Turn onto Mount Olivet Road and travel until you reach the gate location on your left. It currently has a locked swing gate blocking the dirt road entry.
We also encourage Residents to ask any additional questions by clicking Reply to All, writing your questions, and clicking Send. Your messages will go directly to the KPOA Board and KCR.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Argyle is also a remote gate as is the Brookwood Village gate. Actually, I think that the Argyle Gate may be closer to your home on Chatsworth Court than the new proposed Mt. Olivet Gate. But, to answer your questions,
1. Using its experience with the Argyle Gate, the Kenmure Security Committee will institute protocols to maintain the safety and security of Kenmure residents.
2. Argyle Gate is remote and has not experienced vandalism. Like the Argyle Gate, the new Mt. Olivet Gate will be equipped with one or more cameras to deter vandalism as well as record any vandals.
3. KPOA would create a budget. Currently, the budget for Argyle Gate maintenance is $2,000/yr.
4. One would expect the same level of monitoring as with the Argyle Gate — primarily construction traffic. Obviously, the amount of time depends on how much construction is underway.
5. As it stands right now, the 60-acre parcel is zoned R2R by Henderson County which permits a wide variety of uses. Some of these uses are benign, others definitely are not. By annexing the 60-acre parcel, Kenmure avoids the risk of those undesirable uses. Here, KPOA has a unique opportunity to avoid this risk, because KEI already owns this parcel. Additional detailed information can be found at 60-Acre Annexation. Some areas of Kenmure are already protected (example, Carl Sandburg) from incompatible development. Obviously, KPOA cannot protect all our borders. But, where we can do, it is the KPOA Board’s duty to bring to its members the opportunity to do so.
Some Data on 60 Acre Annex
I took Bill Daleure’s challenge to residents to check out the drive from Argyle Gate to the proposed Mt. Olivet entrance to the 60 acres. Here is what Barb and I observed and experienced:
1) Argyle to Mt. Olivet entrance = this was a 3.5 mile/7 minute drive. I don’t see why anyone would take Pinnacle Mountain Road from Greenville Highway (Route 225) to drive to Mt. Olivet unless they wanted to grab some apples or doughnuts at Skytop Orchard and enjoy a scenic drive as that would add another 2.6 miles and another 5 minutes to the drive.
2) Mt. Olivet proposed entrance to Interstate 25 underpass = Distance was 1.7 miles and took me 2 minutes and 30 seconds to drive it at or below the posted speed limits. There are a few turns similar to Kenmure roads but I found it to be a well-maintained public road and an easy drive.
3) Mt. Olivet proposed entrance to Interstate 25 northbound entry ramp at Exit #5 = 3.5 miles and exactly 5 minutes to drive. It took an additional 4 minutes and 15 seconds to get to Exit #53 on Interstate 26 so less than a 10-minute total drive to get from the proposed Mt. Olivet to Exit #53 (Upward Road) on I-26.
4) Mt Olivet proposed entrance to Interstate 25 southbound entry ramp at Exit #3 = 2.5 miles and slightly less than a 4-minute drive.
5) For reference: It takes me slightly more than 5 minutes to get from the Kenmure Main gate to my home at 51 Hollybrook Drive (Pinnacle Peak/Hollybrook intersection) and approximately 14 minute total drive time from Exit 53 on I-26 to my house.
6) The 60 Acres: We parked at the swing gated entrance to the 60 Acres on Mt. Olivet and walked into the 60 acres with Lee King’s permission. Very nice piece of real estate with a large manmade pond adjacent to the entry to the property and a couple additional ponds on the property. I plan to walk more of the acreage from my house in the next few days.
7) Mt. Olivet Construction Entrance Topography: The proposed access for construction vehicles is level, has good line of sign in both directions and has good turning radius in both directions. It has none of the issues that forced us to invest significant $ in redesigning the Argyle entrance and in my opinion would make an excellent construction/emergency entrance.
8) Andy’s Thoughts: I am not a contractor nor a big-time developer but if I were accessing the 60 acres for construction related activities on
the 60-acre proposed annex I would prefer to access the area from either Exit 3 or Exit 5 off I-25 and Mt Olivet. Personal opinions:
a. I think it would be easy to get contractors to preferentially use the proposed construction entrance at Mt. Olivet versus driving to the main gate or the Argyle gate and accessing through the community.
b. If residents in the 60-acre proposed annex were going to/from Greenville they would preferentially use the construction entrance as it would save them at least 10 minutes.
c. If residents were heading north on I-26, although it would be a longer distance, with no stop lights and mostly 4 lane highway the drive time would be 4 to 5 minutes less using the construction entrance versus driving through Kenmure.
d. My property borders the proposed 60 Acre annexation and I feel the advantages to having this land be annexed and developed as part of Kenmure far outweigh the disadvantages for Kenmure at large.
e. I will be voting yes.
Has the current Board thought enough about this proposal, as did the 2012 Board with over a 9-month investigative period?
The KPOA Board had the benefit of the 2012 research and vetted KEI’s current proposal. The issue is not complex. Do we want to eliminate the risk of incompatible development on our border which might have a negative effect on our property value? After weighing the pros and cons the Board felt that Kenmure should be allowed to determine whether or not they want to annex the 60 acres. The Board also believes that the pluses outweigh the minuses and is committed to giving you all the information that you need to cast your vote.
The Board met with Lee King on June 6th to discuss his request for annexation of the 60 acres and at that meeting voted to bring it to “a vote of the members” and recommend a “Yes” vote. They did this without a site plan, without contacting the residents most impacted by the proposal, without a budget that determines how much our dues might increase, without addressing the 11 negatives listed in the Long Range Planning Committee (LRPC) Report, and without having answered the questions above. The KPOA Board is “the government regulatory group” in Kenmure to protect our residents from anything that would harm our community and its residents, including decreases in property values and increases in annual dues. Has the current Board thought enough about this proposal, as did the 2012 Board, which over a 9-month investigative period got the residents a better deal than is proposed now?
Actually, on May 10, Lee King/KEI made a verbal request to KPOA President, Susan Boland. Here is the rest of the timeline:
May 13 – LRPC Meeting & Updated Annexation Report
May 16 – Written Email Request from KEI
May 17 – Board Meeting Discussion
June 6 – Special Board Meeting with KEI/Lee King; Board Recommends a Member Vote
June 18 – Board, Lee King meet with Adjoining Property Owners & Neighbors
July 8, July 30, Aug 6 – Town Hall Meetings
September – Member Voting (electronic & paper ballots)
Susan asked Lee King to put KEI’s request in writing. In the meantime, Susan gave Board members a heads up and met with the Long Range Planning Committee on May 13. LRPC updated its annexation report. Lee King made a written request (via email on May 16). On May 17, the KPOA Board discussed the request at its regular monthly Board meeting. The Board decided that it needed to meet with Lee King which it did in a Special Board Meeting on June 6. At this meeting, the Board voted unanimously to put to a member vote the following question: should the Kenmure Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions be amended to include the 60-acre parcel. Based upon the Board’s discussion with Lee King and after discussing pros and cons outlined by the LRPC, the Board also recommended that the property owners vote yes. The Board has a duty to tell its members its assessment of this – or any – proposal.
So, from May 10 to June 6, all the KPOA Board did was tee-up the issue for a KPOA member vote. Amendment to the Declaration requires a 67% positive vote. Rhetorical Question: What would be the purpose of recommending a KPOA member vote and getting out all the information, if the Board recommended a ‘no’ vote?
On June 18, the Board held a meeting with Lee King, adjoining property owners and nearby residents. The proposal was outlined. Many good questions were asked and answered. While the Board did not ask for a show of hands on who favored or who opposed the annexation, it was clear from comments and questions that some favored some did not.
Town Hall Meetings were, or will be held on July 8, July 30, and August 6. The first town hall was well-attended.
Yes, the Board reached its decision and recommendation without a site plan, because the 60-acre proposal is not anything new for Kenmure. It is one more mile of road and 39 additional Kenmure style homes. The road would be built to Kenmure standards as will all the homes. The proposal was brought to the Board by KEI, who has been Kenmure’s developer for more than 30 years. As far as the financial impact goes (and the KPOA Board will have more detailed information to you soon), after years of formulating KPOA’s annual budgets, about 10% of our expenses are fixed costs, including the office, the gatehouse, common grounds, accounting service, etc. Adding more lots gives us more people to share these fixed costs. Contract Security and the Security vehicle account for 35% of our expenses. These are semi-fixed costs and would not rise quicker than the number of additional lots. The KPOA Board has ‘skin in the game’ and has been a good steward of its members’ money. Clearly, no one – especially Board Members — ever wants to increase in the annual KPOA annual assessment! UPDATE 7/30/2019: See KEI Financial Commitment Package Net cost of the annexation to current KPOA property owners is ZERO.
The Board knows that this is a new issue for some Kenmure residents, but it is not a new issue for Kenmure. The issue came up in 2012 and was debated then. The measure almost passed – just a few votes short of the over 500 yes votes needed out of the 800 or so property owners.
The Board is committed to providing all the information you want in order for you to make an informed vote. From June 6 to the beginning of September – almost 3 months — is sufficient time for Kenmure property owners to review the facts and make an informed decision.
Can you please explain the benefit to the current Kenmure residents with the addition of these 60 acres that is proposed for consideration?
Good hear from you and glad to have the chance to fill you in!
The KPOA Board has identified the following advantages to annexing the 60-acres:
· Annexation will Preserve Property Values for All Kenmure Residents by eliminating the risk of incompatible development on Kenmure’s southern border – this is critical for nearby homes, and may have a ripple effect on Kenmure property values, generally.
· Ensure that homes are built with Kenmure’s covenants and restrictions and subject to KPOA Rules. If/when something is built on the 60-acres it would be much more desirable for the homes to be Kenmure estate or cottage homes. In fact, cottage homes are very desirable as people downsize.
· Development by KEI, Kenmure’s current developer; KEI also owns the Kenmure Country Club. The addition of up to 39 homes could potentially add them as Club members. The continued success of the Kenmure Country Club is vital to every Kenmure property owner’s property value.
· Additional KEI inventory of lots to sell may entice KEI to remain involved in the Kenmure community for 3-10 years. KEI has been Kenmure’s developer for 30 years and is the architect of the Kenmure that we all know and love.
· Attraction of additional Kenmure residents with talents to share and promotion of a vibrant community.
I think that the first bullet point is critical for Kenmure. As it stands right now, the 60-acre parcel is zoned R2R by Henderson County which permits a wide variety of uses. Some of these uses are benign, others definitely are not. By annexing the 60-acre parcel, Kenmure avoids the risk of those undesirable uses. Here, KPOA has a unique opportunity to avoid this risk. And, future lot/home annual assessments and KEI’s incentives will ensure that it will not increase current resident’s assessments. Additional detailed information can be found at 60-Acre Annexation.
Lastly, and I’m going to share this great news with the rest of Kenmure soon, Chief Dustin Nicholson of the Green River Fire and Rescue (GRFR) in Tuxedo, NC tells KPOA that he has looked at the distance from our Main Station located at 1524 Old Us 25 Hwy to the proposed new entrance at 1600 Mount. Olivet Rd and it would be approximately 2 miles to the entrance. GRFR is currently traveling approximately 4 miles to Kenmure’s main gate then to the top of the mountain to access the Pinnacle Peak area of Kenmure. In addition, Chief Nicholson tells me that Green River Fire & Rescue’s New Station 4 will be located adjacent to 4862 Pinnacle Mountain Rd. Station 4 will be located approximately 2.1 miles from the Argyle Gate and Approximately 2.2 miles from the proposed entrance at 1600 Mount Olivet Rd. If constructed the new entrance will reduce response times for Green River’s staff responding to Kenmure which will be a benefit to our citizens that live in Kenmure.
You may have read or heard about some opposition to the annexation. Yes, there will be some construction noise. Construction traffic will use the new gate at Mt. Olivet Road. Yes, there will be some additional residential traffic, but the estimate of 2-3 cars per hour (probably starting in 2022 or later) will be hardly noticeable. Traffic Facts. Kenmure’s Brookwood Village has 60 homes which traverse in and out through one street. Traffic is not an issue. Again, we don’t have a crystal ball, but it seems to me that preservation of our property values and better access for fire and rescue outweigh these inconveniences.
Thank you for keeping an open mind. If you have any additional questions, don’t hesitate to contact me.
Susan Boland, KPOA President
Gail and Steve Craine
As we watch the flow of questions and comments, we can’t help but ask, “What is the role of the KPOA board and as our duly elected representatives, why their recommendations are second guessed and nitpicked?”
Thank you, Gail and Steve Craine – property owners since 2007
As you know, the mission of the Kenmure Property Owners Association is to enhance the Kenmure residential community under the leadership of an elected, volunteer Board of Directors. The Association is organized to fund and provide essential services and is guided by respect among members, high regard for its volunteers and interest in the ongoing development of Kenmure as a premier place to live. The Association 1) provides essential services to the development such as road maintenance, security, trash removal, and others as appropriate, 2) oversees programs to enhance property values such as architectural review, beautification, etc., and 3) manages common elements such as the roads, entry gates, and Rail Pen Gap Park. The KPOA Board strives to make the best possible decisions for all Kenmure property owners.
My husband and I have lived in Kenmure since 2011 – so not as long as you have! – and I can’t remember a time when the Board’s judgment and motives have been put under such a microscope. Still, questions and concerns by property owners to the Board are always appropriate. The Board continues to investigate all questions and concerns and give the most accurate answer to property owners. Our goal is that all property owners have the information that they need to make an informed vote on whether incorporation of the 60-acre parcel into Kenmure is appropriate.
Thank you for your support of the KPOA and its mission!
Susan Boland, KPOA President
As a resident of 178 Pinnacle Peak Lane and member of the “Kenmure Concerned Residents” I want to register my disappointment and dismay at the hostile tone of the email “Fact vs. Fiction.” The tone and tactics you appear to be using are those of a bully and have no place in this discussion. As a successful developer with many years of experience crunching the numbers on developments, I trust Bill DeLeure’s numbers and analysis to be reasonable and factual. Any way you slice it there will be an increase in traffic and security issues. The board should see Bill as an ally not an adversary. He is doing homework for you that should have been done before you merrily went ahead and endorsed the development proposal. Hopefully, this deep dive into all the factors will result in a more informed decision by the property owners, whichever way the vote goes. I believe it is highly inappropriate for the board to be fear-mongering and labeling dissenters as some shadowy anonymous group making up fiction. You owe us an apology.
I also have a hard time understanding why the board is so favorable to this project. With the number of unsold lots in Kenmure and slow pace of sales, adding more inventory will only further depress the situation. The example of Berwick Downs is not comparable. Those lots are much closer to Kenmure and Flat Rock amenities and much more accessible and desirable for someone wanting to build.
Have you considered the safety issues to residents of displacing potentially dangerous wildlife (bears, snakes, possibly rabid raccoons) currently living on the 60 acres? They will move into surrounding neighborhoods as has happened in many developments around Asheville.
Thank you for your views on the property annexation at Kenmure. All views are welcome and the board has done its best to present actual facts to the Kenmure community and to rebut those that present erroneous information. We have considered data and information from many residents, including Bill Daleure and other Kenmure residents as well as our KPOA outside counsel on this matter to negotiate a fair deal for KEI and KPOA. We believe we have considered all relevant information and presented it many ways, from the three town hall meetings, to the KPOA website to Kenmure Alerts, and general discussions at open board meetings etc.
It is not helpful when certain individuals want to criticize and accuse volunteer board members of that are working hard for the benefit of all residents in responding to KEI’s request. We also recognize that we cannot make everyone happy with every decision the board makes.
We believe there are many good reasons to approve this annexation but you need to make your own valuation on the pros and cons. We encourage you to vote in September and at the end of the process the Kenmure residents will decide this outcome.
The KPOA Board
For what my thought are worth, the KPOA Boards primary responsibility is to represent the ownerships collective interest. I attended the last open meeting and it seemed to me that the Board was trying to sell Lee’s proposal harder than Lee. I don’t know how the Board can support the feeling of the ownership until a vote is taken. The Boards actions should be neutral until this happens. Clearly, strong effort should be taken to encourage voting and simplifying the process. After the vote, the Board should take a position that reflects the results. I think the Board’s over selling on the part of LEI is going to turn many owners off from participating. Several of our neighbors have expressed their concern to me.
If the Board desires to protect all Kenmure border properties, did the Board explore purchasing the 60 acres or just 100 feet along the border of the property (8.85 acres) from KEI and putting a conservation easement on it? This would enhance all of Kenmure.
It is doubtful KEI would entertain selling us a 100 feet border. Not only does the KPOA Board feel that the annexation of the 60 acres would provide a protective border, but the Board feels that the continued development of Kenmure would protect our property values by avoiding incompatible uses as well as maintain and enhance the real estate market for all Kenmure property owners.
The Positives the LRPC offered and the Board is espousing, are:
- KEI would develop the property and retain a financial interest in Kenmure. Do you think this annexation simply increases the value of a currently unsellable asset that KEI will sell in the near future?
- New development will show a vibrant community and potentially increase property values. Do you believe Hollybrook Drive provides that with 8-12 years of lot sales?
- Residents could: i) Invest time on KPOA Committees, as well as the Village of Flat Rock; ii) Invest in Club memberships; iii) Create additional block votes to elect members of the Village of Flat Rock Council; iv) become ambassadors for Kenmure to their families and friends. Does the KPOA Board believe these are true and compelling reasons to move forward?
- Keep KEI active in Kenmure to postpone for KPOA the need to deal with the issue of the Club if KEI leaves. Lee said at the 7/8/19 meeting that this does not affect the potential sale of the Club. When he gets the right offer he will sell. Should the Board focus more on this very real problem concerning the Club?
The Long Range Planning Committee report to the Board on the 60 Acres was first done in 2012 and then updated in 2019. This report did not address the priority of pros and cons, but categorized the many thoughts on annexation of the 60 acres.
- There is no question that KEI would retain more of a financial interest in Kenmure by being able to develop the 60 acres as part of Kenmure. Most Kenmure residents have seen the benefits that KEI has brought to this community and would like that to continue as long as possible. KEI’s position has been that if the 60 acres are not annexed into Kenmure KEI would look for a buyer of the 60 acres. Who that would be or what would be the land use is anyone’s guess – but it would not be as desirable as being developed subject to the KPOA Declaration.
- New residents to Kenmure bring to KPOA new abilities and add to the vibrancy of the community. Many long-term residents of Kenmure have volunteered for numerable positions that keep Kenmure the great community that it has become. Adding additional lots and homes adds to the pool of residents to fill the many volunteer positions in Kenmure. Just come to the annual Volunteer dinner at the Club to see most of this select group.
- The sale of the Club will happen when KEI decides to sell. Not when someone makes an offer. KEI has agreed to give KPOA a 90-day window to decide if KPOA wishes to pursue purchase of the Club. In 2014 the Long Range Planning Committee started an intense effort to develop a comprehensive plan reviewing all scenarios in the future for the Club; including sale to a private firm, bankruptcy, sale to a Kenmure resident(s), sale to KCC members, or the purchase by KPOA. This plan was developed for the inevitable time when KEI decides to sell. The plan was reviewed at the Annual KPOA Membership Meeting in December 2016 and was well-received by attendees. The purchase of the Club by KPOA will be met by mixed reaction from the KPOA membership.
1. Does KEI pay the same yearly Dues on all lots owned now to the KPOA?
2 . Golf courses are not very marketable in today’s economy. Broadmore is for sale now and people are not beating their doors down.
3 . They are numerous courses for sale now in our area.
4 . I think KPOA should be more worried about buying the existing Club than putting more lots on the ground.
5 . 12 D states that if Lee had the right offer now he would sell.
6 . What is Lee Kings price and does anyone know.
KEI pays the annual KPOA lot assessment for all Kenmure lots that are platted with Henderson County.
2 -6.. I’m cc’ing our KPOA Long Range Planning Chair Bob Wilson, email@example.com. The Long Range Planning Committee undertook a multi-year study on KPOA’s options when KEI decides to sell the Club. I will let Bob Wilson get back to you on that subject. As far as the asking price for the Kenmure Country Club, Lee King is the person to ask!
KEI’s request to annex the 60-acre parcel is an effort to preserve Kenmure property values by ensuring Kenmure-style development in this area. Even if Lee King decides to sell the Club and/or KEI’s remaining lots, the Kenmure covenants and restrictions and rules will apply to this property.
What protection will the new lots have from possible unattractive development by others along Whispering Creek Lane and Southern Run Road?
Thanks for emailing and yes, there are other adjoining properties, but these are much smaller acreage — family parcels. Presumably, any incompatible use will have much less impact than incompatible use on the 60 acre parcel. And, KEI has situated the road way on part of the 60 acres so that it is closer to the lot line of these adjoining parcels. And, the contours show that some of this area is steep so that it would be less likely that a building would be built within 10′ of the lot line. And, yes, we cannot possibly protect against all incompatible development on our Kenmure border, but the KPOA Board believes that here we have a unique opportunity to do so.
KPOA Board President
Why don’t you publish a real incremental income and balance sheet covering the cost and expenses that the KPOA will face, covering the next 5 years, to get away from the generalizations that both sides of this discussion seem to have. The idea that the main reason to vote yes to support the annexation is to help retain our property values is an assumption, which could or could not be true. I don’t understand why the KPOA Board can’t show the owners an economic analysis supporting the comment that there is no incremental cost to the current owners. Also, the argument over traffic is based on assumptions by both parties. The reality is that it will increase in traffic. The unanswerable question is weather it will be bothersome, which won’t be known until the land is annexed. It is clear that the Board supports the proposal and wants it to pass. For what it is worth, I would suggest that the Board publish a short paper outlining the economics and assumptions used to come to this recommendation. I feel there are Board members with the communication skills necessary to support a short comprehensive paper covering the reasoning. Consider getting away from the back and forth arguments over incremental minor points and develop a solid document for the owners that could get a good grade from a Marketing Professor. TJM
Absolutely you will be getting a Point paper. I am also tired of all the back and forth emails! Thanks for your patience. In the meantime… Attached are two spreadsheets with Income/Expense projections.